more on orbitals...

[miracle]

Hi everyone,

thanks for the answer from RobJim first.

i have found some pictures on the internet, showing what shape the elctrons move. 1s is sphere, but further on, the shapes become more and more weird to me, with couple of lobes. why they move like that?

the lobes are on x,y,z coordinates, electrons of differnet energy level seem to occupy same space when comparing them( most of them cover the origin). they share some spaces of the path?

thanks a lot. i hope that i have made myself clear. [/img]

[RobJim]

I don't know why they have those shapes exactly. Physicists claim they have those shapes because when the Schrodinger equations are solved, the square of the wave functions come out looking like that I think. Have you taken quantum mechanics?

[charco]

For info about the shapes of orbitals checkout this link

orbitals and atomic theory

[Nick]

regarding electrons or particles of the like, you cant talk about speed, movement and impules, --> HEISENBERG.
What is shown in the books is the 95% probability density of the electron. they do not occupy the same space. I know it sounds quite weird, but quit thinking at the quantumlevels in patterns like exact space, movement, particels and the like.

[JangosClone]

I don't know a whole lot about quantum mechanics so this is more of a common sense answer. In the first energy there is one orbital. Since there aren't any others electrons can be in a wide range of places. However, when you go to the second evergy level, there are 4 orbitals. They repulse each other. That is why their shapes get narrower. Also, since they a repulsed by electrons in other energy levels, they will be farther and farther from the nucleus.
This is only a model though, to help us visualize. Like Nick said, we need to stop thinking about atoms as definite shapes.
(though I personally don't like the quantum mechanical model and think that something better is bound to come along)

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by JangosClone

I don't know a whole lot about quantum mechanics so this is more of a common sense answer. In the first energy there is one orbital. Since there aren't any others electrons can be in a wide range of places. However, when you go to the second evergy level, there are 4 orbitals. They repulse each other. That is why their shapes get narrower. Also, since they a repulsed by electrons in other energy levels, they will be farther and farther from the nucleus.
This is only a model though, to help us visualize. Like Nick said, we need to stop thinking about atoms as definite shapes.
(though I personally don't like the quantum mechanical model and think that something better is bound to come along)

That post is so wrong I don't even know where to begin???

[JangosClone]

Geez, I said I don't know much about quantum mechanics. Instead of telling me how bad it was, you could try telling me what was wrong with it.

[Nick]

all is wrong.....
sorry but its just wrong, wrong wrong

[charco]

Nice to see open minded scientific tolerance flourishing in the 21st century...... TIE HIM TO THE DUCKING STOOL!

[Nick]

the problem with quantum mechanics and common sense is they dont fit and match. you cant explain QM with common sense. and if i dont have the slightest idea ........ well there is nothing to say.

(though I personally don't like the quantum mechanical model and think that something better is bound to come along)

the question is do you understand it or not, what kind of scienc is "hmm i dont like it?".......